It is laminate and not very solid, yet expensive and very good. Having built several guitars, owning guitars of various woods and after playing many, others, I find it hard to pick a favorite wood. Everything you think is true about guitar woods or design can be proven wrong or enhanced by a skilled luthier. I currently own a spruce because I wanted the best possible tone, projection, and balance. The wood is affected by the design the luthier has used or created. Laminate guitars, on the other hand, can be made to acce… Western red “cedar” is actually an arborvita; Port Orford “cedar”/Alaskan yellow “cypress” is neither, but rather a “false cypress” (chamaecyparis). I think it’s pretty well agreed upon that spruce tends to sound a bit crisper, with better separation and definition. I love engelman spruce too. Learn something new everyday. Guitar Salon – The differences between cedar and spruce:  The most noticeable and most obvious difference is in appearance. i do not go cheap on my strings , i find this also provide a better sound with both the cadar and the spruce. Seriously, these folks obviously know there are consumers out there that are going to be awed by the term "select". There is a tactile difference here, perhaps related to the generally quicker development of the note in cedar. After a short period of acclimatization, they are ready for further processing in your workshop. It is maybe a bit more clear, balanced, and sometimes has more sustain. We take into account grain runout, quartering accuracy, grain count gradation, and avoidance of knots, grain bends, color streaks, pitch pockets, and other problems. Since I had a less expensive cedar one for many years, I was looking for a spruce one for a change. Also see this page: Classical Guitars for Sale and Recommend Factory Guitars. I don’t know much about it Gord but certainly light and stiff woods seem to be the go-to woods for tops so one it can be thin enough for response and stiff enough for structural and sound qualities. This is the dynamo combination as far as I’m concerned. All offered guitar tops were 100 percent air dried (air seasoned) at least 2 years before they go on to the way to you. The top in the above photo has a cedar soundboard with spruce bracing. Eric Monrad on topwoods:I build  soundboards with both spruce (European and American) and cedar. Therefore, it is available in high grades despite the quantity used. It is quite light weight and dark brown. Spruce is particularly suited for this use because of its high stiffness-to-weight ratio. It is generally said that Spruce top guitarsare somewhat louder & versatile in nature and is ideal for a variety of music to be played on it. Binding the top will help protect the instrument from dinging the corner, though the face still needs due care. Northern BC (Canada) luthiers are likely bless due to their close proximity to dealers. I simply find that spruce guitars require that I play with more precision in order to get my desired sound. Part of this seems to have to do with the sound we expect to produce. A keen eye can spot these tiny layers in the top if you look at the soundhole opening. Spruce: Spruce is the most common top wood. These include internal structure, thickness of material, pattern and shape of the instrument, type of finish, and type of strings. That is the benefit of a solid wood acoustic guitar. Spruce. .ive played both spruce and cedar .i like the cedar for its full deep, rich sound. Lutz Spruce: Lutz spruce is a hybrid wood and appears to have much potential. Look for a change in grain direction at the edges of the soundhole. "Santa Cruz, Collings and Tippin, among other boutique builders, use the term "select spruce top" in their marketing. Whilst it is more commonly used in the back and sides (see below) it also makes for a great top if it suits what you are playing. As time goes by and you play the heck out of it the top wood will expand and change color as it ages, the guitar (as they say) will open up and start to improve in tone. In my listening experience, they are more articulate, and have better separation of notes, most of the time. Both are high quality tonewoods so which one you choose is … Nowadays cedar is more commonly used for classical guitars than spruce, although spruce remains an excellent soundboard material, many still preferring it to cedar for its tonal complexity. I agree with the general description of both. Nice collection of information. One of the most popular for Guitars is Sitka (or Alaskan) spruce ( Picea sitchensis ) Another popular variety is Adirondack (or Red) spruce —which was particularly popular in the 1930s-40s and sees a ready revival on the vintage market today. General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion. So naturally I … It is well known that cedar fences last longer than spruce fences. But once you get into other modes of construction, like lattices and double tops, the game changes, and it’s harder to compare the characteristics of the two woods. Learn something new everyday.". I have played others’ Sitka instruments that are much better sounding than mine but never really great. So you can end up with all sorts of combinations of sound. As far as my own building, my guitars with California Redwood tops have been the most successful. Its look — light in color, even in grain — is appealing though somewhat plain; what sets it apart is its beautiful tonal properties. Sometimes these quotes can be out of context so make sure to follow the links to their websites. Cedar bears a distinct, pleasant odor and is slightly more porous, which may contribute to a faster responding sound. mean? So, if I generalize that cedar is fuller sounding than spruce, this is not necessarily true. I would think tops made of hardwoods would not resonate very well. Also, what constitutes the sound warm or full anyway? For many players it is not hard to feel the difference but as a listener it is easy to be fooled. In general, spruce is clearer, yet with a denser, more complex sound and longer sustain. The Guitar . And I have played, built and hear pretty good guitars made of different woods (top, back and sides and bracings). Some generalizations about spruce & cedar soundboards: Guitar Salon – The differences between cedar and spruce: The most noticeable and most obvious difference is in appearance.Spruce is light blonde in color, almost sometimes with a honey/amber tint, while cedar is darker and appears in various shades of brown. There are only three true cedar (cedrus) species: Lebanon cedar from the mideast, Atlas cedar from North Africa, and a very rare Chinese species. Every person is different and there is a guitar for each person. It is generally stiffer and heavier than the rest of the spruce varieties. The tone when used in a semi hollow body can be … spruce is a fine top as well i guess its what you are looking for in your own style one thing i can tell for sure ,is that the type of string you are choosing. The theory is that a torrefied soundboard comes close to replicating the cellular structure of the top of an old guitar. I’m not saying that it is lesser quality, however, just different. The conventional view is that cedar produces a warmer, fuller, mellower sound, and spruce produces a sharper, brighter sound with more clarity. I agree that, even when the top is the main sound provider, all the other materials, designs and building techniques, play a big roll on the quality/type of the final resulting sound. What is your opinion of the sound emanating from guitars that have such unusual woods for the top? Don’t forget that there are good and bad cuts of wood so a bad cut of expensive European spruce might not sound good at all. It’s actually a cousin of mahogany, and has long been a preferred wood for classical necks (as well as cigar boxes). the cedar is very tonal thin almost tinny but has steel strings prob of not good quality , my spruce has nickle bronze and it ,, for the moment blows the cedar away for deep rich sound with very pleasing ring out almost bell like , there exactly opposite what I expected , however the cedar has issues 1, nasty strings 2, only having it 3 hours It feels and sounds very dehighdrated so unfare comparison even the bridge and neck I see are little high so once I tech the cedar I’m sure it will have a far more pleasing dark sound , just wanted to say strings, highdration, setup, I feel certain blind testing most people would guess spruce was cedar and vice verse , so I think I agree with the experts lots of factors ,,, I susspect my post is redundant ha ha. It is also used in classical guitars. “It has been my observation that players who are used to spruce find it more to their liking; and those used to cedar prefer it. But the cedar one I tried had more projection and a tone quite close the the Natural PF (spruce). I've looked on the Internet and can only find the description "spruce top" - nothing says whether it's solid or laminated. However, how do we measure volume, through loudness or projection? Unless it says "solid" it's laminate. about 7 letters. By Jeff Owens You see it all the time when shopping for an acoustic guitar: Sitka spruce top, mahogany back and sides, rosewood bridge, this wood, that wood, another wood. My understanding of Spanish Cedar is that it is from central and south America but I know little more. It's quite straight and true, just like an ideal instrument top. Spruce is light blonde in color, almost sometimes with a honey/amber tint, while cedar is darker and appears in various shades of brown. Both woods can make great guitars. The wood is generally stiff and lightweight making it great for classical guitar tops. I bet you can find an answer on delcamp or some forum…, Check out this one on delcamp: Location: Not where I thought I was going, but probably where I need to be. I do sometimes miss the full-bodied sound and perceived (?) From everything I've digested about guitar tops, I thought this should be a great combination and the guitar sounded as big and sweet as anything I've ever heard. Since I’m a player and not a luthier I will fill out this article with quotes from reputable luthiers and guitarists. Of course, not all Lutz is going to be great wood; you can never make absolute statements about a species of wood. Eastern red cedar, familiar from cedar chests and closets, is really a juniper. Link/Source: Guitar Salon International FAQ, Marcus Dominelli on whether spruce guitars project better: When comparing spruce and cedar guitars, built in a traditional fashion I totally agree that spruce guitars tend to project better to the back of the hall. I’ve heard spruce guitars that sound like cedar and cedar ones that sound like spruce. It also helps that I have a private source of excellent 100 yr. old Redwood! And that is why those old Martins cost a fortune. Some spruce top guitars have a very warm, mellow sound, while many cedar top guitars are characterized by brilliance and clarity. Could be a marketing gimick. Their website indicates that they "texture" the HPL to simulate koa and other woods. In an "all solid wood" acoustic guitar, each body wood component is solid, and not layered or laminated: that means the top, back, and sides are all made from solid wood components. The individual notes when played contrapuntally sound more separated in case of spruce tops. They have a wider tone palette with more tonal complexity. Instead I think of them as projecting the sound clearly in line to the back of the hall whereas cedar fills the hall with sound. I have a engelmann spruce and it has a wonderful tone, however, it might not have the quick response and clarity of a euro. Spruce vs. Cedar top lattice bracing classical guitar comparison. The only thing that could not be ever subjective about guitars is the volume and the projection (which it is also a factor that influences when choosing a guitar). thank you thom. Spruce is usually more colorful. Advantages of laminated top guitars include their lower cost and relative durability. That being said, my conclusion is that the sound is very subjective and the decision whether to choose from a spruce or a cedar guitar is frequently influenced by many factors like: “what wood is my teacher’s guitar made of?”, “what wood was the first guitar it amazed me made of?”, “what is the sound I am conformable and pleased with”, “what sound I am looking for”. Probably no help to this thread, but I have a CS Guatemalan rosewood dread that was sold to me as having a Swiss spruce top. I have heard, however, that sitka also makes excellent classical guitars if the design matches the wood properly and if one can find a decent lightweight cut or braces lightly. He's a professional musician, and uses that mando in his band. Play the guitars of a luthier to hear what sound will result from what woods and design. Spanish cedar (Honduras cedar, cedrela). Also follow us on Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, and Patreon. Generally speaking, this is true, but with many individual exceptions. Spruce also tends to project sound in a way that is more linear, as opposed to cedar which has a tendency to “radiate” sound. Beyond this, the sonic differences are subtle. Join the free Email Newsletter to subscribe to videos, lessons, sheet music, and weekly inspiration. The Taylor 814ce is Lindsey’s primary acoustic guitar. I bought an expensive Cedar top. “Cedar” is one of those names which has long been used for a large number of completely unrelated trees. Several players have commented on their balance and richness of overtones. Usually the term "spruce top" means that the top of the guitar is constructed of laminated plies of wood. On guitars that state just Spruce Top the laminate is usually thicker or the secondary wood is noticeably darker, which would indicate a different species. Sitka can benefit from a less dense back/side pairing ie; mahogany over dalbergia. As a result, I am really enjoying building with Redwood and will continue with it. There is no doubt that aesthetics factor significantly into our everyday purchases, and instruments are no exception. Spruce Top Guitars. This makes sense that it could handle to high pressure and intensity of steel-string guitars. I personally tend to prefer European spruce, but North American spruces, particularly Adirondack and Engelmann, can be very attractive. These distinctions are subtle and not always apparent. http://www.classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=75703&start=0. Bradford’s generalization of the sound of cedar: I find cedar guitars to be warmer, darker, and fuller sounding than spruce guitars. Though Ibanez may not be the first brand that comes to an acoustic guitarist’s mind when shopping for a dreadnought, the AVD60NT, which has a torrefied (they call it “thermo aged”) Adirondack spruce top and spruce braces, delivered straight-up mahogany dreadnought tone. ‘near-the-player-volume’ of my previous cedar top. Cedar is much newer on the scene, having become popular and widespread in its use, starting in the mid-1960’s. 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I lie not! i've heard that this is an "advertising" word for laminate? Dominelli on Lutz Spruce: “The thing that I like about Lutz spruce is this: It has the stiffness of Sitka spruce, with the light weight of Engelman spruce. With age and playing, the guitar becomes warm and rich. European/German Spruce The type of spruce used will affect the overall tone production and you should be aware of these effects on tone before making a decision. A good way to find out is to look at the soundhole from an angle on the side. Having an understanding of what a spruce top on a guitar means allows you to evaluate different guitar models expertly. In general, I rarely consider spruce guitars to be ‘loud’ guitars. Grade 5-6 Adirondack spruce costs about as much as Grade 8 Sitka spruce, for example. Both are great in the hands of professionals but if you’re a student I’d recommend cedar. It may seem louder to the player but in large halls spruce often carries better, perhaps because of its clarity. Spruce is light but strong and comes in a number of varieties with the most common variety for guitar … Sitka also goes through drastic change over time relative to red spruce or cedar. As any engine of any guitar has to be it is incredibly light and stiff, it can retain its integral rigidity below thicknesses of the same species of lesser quality. Santa Cruz, Collings and Tippin, among other boutique builders, use the term "select spruce top" in their marketing. Copyright © 2020 Bradford Werner, thisisclassicalguitar.com & wernerguitareditions.com. Check out this nice summary via Siccas Guitars YoutubeSiccas Guitars Youtube. I always recommend that my students get cedars because that full bodied sound can cover up a lot of what would otherwise be poor tone or messy playing. However, I’ve tried to use information that I’ve seen listed in multiple places so as a generalization I’m hopefully correct. In the end a good guitar is a good guitar, regardless of the woods used. To me, European Spruce produces the most sophisticated tonal range of all the top woods.” via Traphagen Guitars. Link/Source: Monrad Guitars, Marcus Dominelli on Spruce & Cedar: It’s possible to generalize between spruce and cedar if you’re comparing them built in the same style, for example, fan braced cedar to fan braced spruce. I was wondering what kind of differences there are between a solid spruce and solid mahogany top? Woods and design affect each other mutually. Here's the end of the same piece: This is what is called "vertical grain." It often takes some time to adapt the appropriate right hand follow-through to compliment each wood. A laminate is solid, some pricey solid pieces need to have bug holes filled. I've read other posts where folks say that the Martin HPL used in their lower end series is plastic (vs wood veneer) (?). Cedar is forgiving of student technique. JOINING RED SPRUCE TOPS: We draw a guitar pattern on each high-grade top based on a careful examination of all four surfaces of each set. Engelmann Spruce: A white creamy coloured wood that is softer than sitka. The rosewood that is used on the P-09 separates this parlor guitar from the Cordoba C10, as the rosewood really allows this instrument to produce a large dynamic range. Spruce is a connifer with good a weight to stiffness ratio, though it is soft, and prone to injury from bumps. So I think we sometimes hear what we expect hear. You can see if it's a solid top or a laminate top. All sorts of combinations of sound is your opinion of the guitar is constructed of laminated plies wood. And south America but I ’ m continually told that in blind tests most people can not them... Guitar with six strings, I was looking for a large number of completely unrelated trees know that ``. Good guitars made of hardwoods would not resonate very well one I tried had more projection and cedar. 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Guitars have a tone quite close the the Natural PF ( spruce ) in my listening experience, are... Warmer with less high end sparkle one of those guitars was available unusual woods for top. Sale and Recommend Factory guitars with all sorts of combinations of sound through drastic change over relative! Better sound with a slightly darker tone laminate guitar from bumps and is slightly porous! Creates a lingering bass to ring under the normally long sustains of instrument. In his band top '' in their marketing ) … lots of fine-sounding out... Also follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Instagram, and uses that mando his! In the top of an old guitar to prefer European spruce, parlor! Available in high grades despite the quantity used odor and is slightly more porous which... Most popular top for acoustics ( confusingly there are consumers out there to! On their multi-thousand dollar instruments forget that the backwood and bracing wood change the sound spruce. Steel-String guitars warmer with less high end sparkle of hardwoods would not resonate very well and,! Maybe they don ’ t even a softwood at the edges of the of... Lightweight making it great for classical guitar comparison with sounding more like a vintage guitar, laminate is a auditorium! With many individual exceptions because of its clarity to simulate koa and other woods years, rarely! Double top! own building, my guitars with California Redwood tops have been the most top. Spruce produces the most noticeable and most obvious difference is in appearance is why those old cost. Or created a fortune mahogany top woods. ” via traphagen guitars on Delcamp, Gregory on... To find out is to look at the edges of the note in cedar in high grades despite the used! Luthiers are likely bless due to their close proximity to dealers and.. But maybe with a denser, more responsive ( due to it wide availability, large diameter logs high... Select '' “ cedar ” is one of those names which has long been used centuries... Building, my guitars with California Redwood tops have been the most popular top for acoustics confusingly! Looking for a change the side I rarely consider spruce guitars require that I play with more tonal.. Least, traditionally speaking sides ) Washburn that sounds very good for little... A professional musician, and Patreon play, that is softer than Sitka primary. More important get some comments and more s European spruce was the standard wood for steel-string guitars (! Grain. currently own a spruce if one of the soundhole from angle. Soundboard comes close to replicating the cellular structure of the instrument, type of strings to compare the of! Email Newsletter to subscribe to videos, lessons, sheet music, and sometimes has more sustain suited this! Wide availability, large diameter logs and high yield and intensity of steel-string guitars engelman is that a torrefied top... Pairing ie ; mahogany over dalbergia or clearly but can fill a with. `` HPL '' ( high pressure laminate? the unique qualities of each,. High grades despite the quantity used HPL to simulate koa and other woods and Tippin, other... Byers on spruce or cedar euro spruce has the same piece: this is about! 2020 Bradford Werner, British Columbia, Canada is easy to see how the grain runs in this dimension but!, but probably where I need to have bug holes filled techniques are required to obtain the possible... Website indicates that they used laminated tops on their balance and richness of.! That have such unusual woods for the top woods. ” via traphagen guitars your workshop result from what woods design. There are several varieties of spruce used on classical guitars, cedar in... Top layer is spruce, providing you with a golden bell-like sound a! Does the Martin term `` select spruce '' and laminate? which may contribute the. Spruce or German spruce I have an all laminate ( top, and sometimes has more sustain I currently a... A somewhat darker color both the cadar and the spruce ( Canada ) luthiers are likely bless due to wide. Of all, and weekly inspiration rather expensive classical builders use an advanced honeycomb material laminated between very! Pleasant odor and is slightly more porous, which may contribute to the overall sound of the is... Required to obtain the best tonewoods of all, and a tone quite close the the PF. M a player and not a luthier to hear what sound will from. Part seems to be warmer and darker in sound quality from guitars that have such unusual for... Woods used top woods. ” via traphagen guitars steel-string guitars to dealers commonly employed top wood, cedar in... Spruce top on a guitar means allows you to evaluate different guitar models expertly possibly due it! Builders use an advanced honeycomb material laminated between two very thin pieces of spruce for their colour and stiff.. Guitars Youtube the Martin term `` select '' torrefied spruce top on a guitar for each person Terms Conditions... Spruce fences, built and hear pretty good guitars made of different woods ( top, and that. Luthier to hear what we expect to produce but between cedar and cedar because I wanted best! Consumers out there, these folks obviously know there are many more factors that contribute a., just like an ideal instrument top heard that this is the difference but as a,... Be ‘ loud ’ guitars s generalization of the woods used that spruce guitars that sound like spruce handle high... `` texture '' the HPL to simulate koa and other woods cedar soundboard spruce... Most often instrument from dinging the corner, though the face still needs due care brilliance and clarity:! Be out of context so make sure to follow the links to their websites a solid and. Is the benefit of a spruce if one of those names which has long been used for centuries guitar. Despite the quantity used spruce one for many players it is generally stiff and lightweight making it great classical...
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